Türkiye Sanal Havacılık Forumu

[ENG] LTBA & LTFJ Handysheet (non official) && remarks

Offline JOHN COKER

  • Pilot
  • *

  • IVAO ID: 257757

    • Posts: 12
Here's a little update to the handysheet. It may contain errors and it may not reflect TR ATC actual practices.
PDF http://mir.cr/0NW0XPSA
doc (word 2013 or higher) http://mir.cr/0KNOOAXA
Modify it at will.

I've a few (constructive I hope) remarks about my sessions in LTBx sector. Don't take them personally. I may exaggerate what were very unique experiences.

Often taking upper positions (APP, CTR), I was asked several times by the ATC below somethings like "SIDSTARs" or "HDG" or "init alt" or "squawks"

I might have missed some point of actual practices in TR airspace. But....  While I understand that if these clearances change over time they may reflect real ops(?), this extra coordination is (at least to me) a totally superfluous workload in an often already very busy environment (since I'd always prefer RNAVs only, else rwyhdg; ltba5000ft, random sqwk 05xx etc), and quite frankly somewhat boring to repeat over time. So, standards ?

Speaking about standard practices.
(<-- this is not an actual situation, it's just to illustrate my purpose)
I sometimes miss them clearances in aircraft tags in ivac. Please^^ . Of course, when you're controlling (me first!!!), when these 6 characters are of interest for no other ATC, AND when no over zealous Training Adviser or Examinator is watching (:) )  AND when you know what you're doing... then and only then,  you don't need them.


Have fun!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 16:24:50 by JOHN COKER »


Offline VEYSEL SEKER

  • Second Officer
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  • IVAO ID: 314033

    • Posts: 310

Offline KEMAL EMRE ÖZTİRYAKİ

  • Captain
  • *

  • IVAO ID: 399189

    • Posts: 1476
    • KEO
Hello John,

You "must" tag aircrafts so the other atc can understand and interpret it correctly. When you are alone, you "should" again tag, so you don't confuse it.

For 35L departures, initial altitude is 5000. For 35R, it is 9000ft. Squawk is always different. SID STARs and other things as well... If you are ground and you don't write ERSE1Z in the SID section, the tower may have taken the aircraft to rwy 35L. Wrong procedure. You then cause conflicts as following: "But the ground gave us ERSE1Z, we should use 35R". This "5 seconds" job may cause the other ATC to speak 20 seconds more and frustrating pilots. ;) In order not to cause such incidents, we should all do our job 100% and not to use shortcuts. Same thing applies to pilots as well... That is why they use checklists. Yes, it is repetition over and over again but this is how it should be.

Kemal Emre Oztiryaki
IVAO Supervisor
Development Operations Support
Webmaster - Turkey


Offline JOHN COKER

  • Pilot
  • *

  • IVAO ID: 257757

    • Posts: 12
Thank you for your feedback Kemal.

Of course, ivac labels shall be used at all times and unconditionally MUST be used when there are nearby ATC(s). My phrasing was misleading.

On a side note, labels can be written for example PIMA1Z, PIM1Z or even just 1Z (obviously referring to the first waypoint of fpl), we all understand what it means. Should anyone be interested, CH DIV listed a set of good(?) practices to "standardize" different controlling habits. Not necessarily relevant here.

Other side note about runway selection. According to LTBA AIP (DEPARTURES item 6)). Pilots shall even be prepared for very last minute runway changes (for example 35R to 35L) to increase departure rate. But sure, it sounds preferable in IVAO to stick to the runway assigned in the first place.

About squawk codes. A list like this with "checkboxes" could really help. Again, it's CH and outdated I guess. I guess I saw a list of somewhere here (in Turkish :/ ) some times ago...

About initial altitudes for all runways, my controlling habits and figures in the handysheet were base on the AIPs. Even when cleared to 5'000ft, many pilots (not relying on their fmc's database if they have any), will bust for example the (below)4'000ft limit over BA040 and BA041 during 1X 1E departures. If they're cleared higher, it looks even harder to coordinate with arrivals on a crossing path...

But sure, in the end, about all these (label, init FL, sqwk),  I will stick to whatever you (TR-xxx's.) recommend on IVAO.


Offline KEMAL EMRE ÖZTİRYAKİ

  • Captain
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  • IVAO ID: 399189

    • Posts: 1476
    • KEO
For squawk, there is no standart assignments. It used to be in a year before but we decided to keep it as real as possible and removed that list. In real life, computer system automatically assigns it... One pilot can have 2301 and the next one could have 4501. Therefore in here, we let ATCs decide as long as they coordinate with each other.

Yes, pilot must be prepared for the very last minute change. I wish they were :)

Usually, for LTBA, the departure is 35L and 35R until 10 knots of tailwind in dry conditions. And Arrival is 05. Therefore the standart SIDs are 1Y and 1Z... When active runway is 23, SIDs are 1E and 1X for 35R & 35L. As you said, initials are standart and given in charts. (Not that anyone is obeying them though.
Kemal Emre Oztiryaki
IVAO Supervisor
Development Operations Support
Webmaster - Turkey