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MAPt ve VDP

Offline FARUK ISIK

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Missed Approach Point ve Visual Descent Point kavramları biraz kafamı karıştırdı .. 
Bazı chartlarda MAPt noktası pistin bile sonrasında ? Bazı chartlarda MAPt pistten önce ama piste çok yakın mesafede .. Bu gibi örneklerde normal bir alçalış mümkün değil mantıken ..  MAPt noktası tam olarak nedir, neyi simgeler neyi ifade eder ?
Mesela aşağıdaki chartta M noktası tam pist başında.. Gibi 
Konu hakkında bilgisi olan ? 


İyi uçuşlar.. 

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Offline GUNER ERCAN

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Faruk  MAP noktasinin pist sonrasinda olan bir chart yada meydan adi verebilirmisin,merak ettimde.

Asagida buldugum bazi bilgileri paylastim belki sorularina cevap bulabilirsin, birde paylastigim linki incelemeni öneririm.  http://www.terps.com/ifrr/jul95.pdf
 
Canadayi bilemiyorum fakat okudugum bazi bilgilerde, VDP Amerikada kullanilmakta zira VDP ICAO terminolojisinde resmi olarak mevcut olmayip PANS-OPS lerde belirtilmemistir. VDP`yi ICAO kurallarini dikkate almadan bagimsiz olarak FAA kendisi olusturmus.

MAP noktasinin piste mesafesinden ziyade, ne zaman yani neyi referans alarak M/A ya gecmemiz yada baslatmamiz gerekir ? belki bunun cevabi senin sorularina temel bir cevap olabilir ! Burada elbette hassas olan ve hassas olmayan yaklasmayi ayirt etmeliyiz.

f. Visual Descent Points (VDPs) are being
incorporated in nonprecision approach procedures.
The VDP is a defined point on the final approach
course of a nonprecision straight-in approach
procedure from which normal descent from the MDA
to the runway touchdown point may be commenced,
provided visual reference required by 14 CFR
Section 91.175(c)(3) is established. The VDP will
normally be identified by DME on VOR and LOC
procedures and by along-track distance to the next
waypoint for RNAV procedures. The VDP is
identified on the profile view of the approach chart by
the symbol: V.

 

Missed Approach Considerations. As
noted earlier, a missed approach initiated after the DA
or MAP involves additional risk. At 100 feet or less
above the runway, it is likely that an aircraft is significantly below the TERPS missed approach obstacle
clearance surface. Prior planning is recommended
and should include contingencies between the published MAP and touchdown with reference to
obstacle clearance, aircraft performance, and alternate escape plans.

An
        ILS is defined as a Precision Approach Procedure. Because of this the
        terminology is slightly different in that the point at which the approach
        is terminated is called the
Decision
        Height
.
        Non Precision Approaches (VOR, NDB and Localiser only) use a different
        point called the
Minimum
        Descent Height
.
        There are subtle differences.


     

With
        the ILS the aircraft is allowed to descend to the DH (usually 250 ft)
        and, if the crew don't see the runway or approach lights they HAVE to
        execute a missed approach. In other words there isn't a MAPt for this
        procedure because it is the same point as the DH.


     

For
        Non Precision Approaches the aircraft can fly down to the MDH but then
        it is allowed to level off and remain at the MDH until it gets to the
        MAPt - only then does it go around. So, a MAPt (I'm adding the little
        T because the charts now show it as MAPt rather than MAP) is only necessary
        and shown for non precision approaches.

Obstacle protection for missed approach is
predicated on the missed approach being initiated at
the decision altitude/height (DA/H) or at the missed
approach point and not lower than minimum descent
altitude (MDA). A climb gradient of at least 200 feet
per nautical mile is required, (except for Copter
approaches, where a climb of at least 400 feet per
nautical mile is required), unless a higher climb
gradient is published in the notes section of the
approach procedure chart. When higher than standard
climb gradients are specified, the end point of the
non-standard climb will be specified at either an
altitude or a fix. Pilots must preplan to ensure that the
aircraft can meet the climb gradient (expressed in feet
per nautical mile) required by the procedure in the
event of a missed approach, and be aware that flying
at a higher than anticipated ground speed increases
the climb rate requirement (feet per minute). Tables
for the conversion of climb gradients (feet per
nautical mile) to climb rate (feet per minute), based
on ground speed, are included on page D1 of the U.S.
Terminal Procedures booklets. Reasonable buffers
are provided for normal maneuvers. However, no
consideration is given to an abnormally early turn.
Therefore, when an early missed approach is
executed, pilots should, unless otherwise cleared by
ATC, fly the IAP as specified on the approach plate
to the missed approach point at or above the MDA or
DH before executing a turning maneuver.




VISUAL DESCENT
POINTS (VDP)





VDPs
are incorporated in selected non-precision approach procedures.  The VDP is a defined point on the final
approach course of a non-precision straight-in procedure from which normal
descent from the MDA to the runway touchdown point may be commenced, provided
the visual reference required by the Air Force and applicable directives is
established.  A visual descent point is
the intersection of a 3° glide slope originating at the threshold and the MDA.
The VDP is identified in the profile view of the approach chart by the symbol:
V[/b].



No
special technique is required to fly a procedure with a VDP.  To be assured of the proper obstacle
clearance, the pilot should not descend below the MDA before reaching the VDP
and acquiring the necessary visual reference with the runway environment.



The
following two methods may be used to calculate a VDP if none is shown on the
approach chart.



Distance



Since
a 3° glide slope equates to 300? of altitude change every mile, the VDP can be
calculated as follows:




Step
1: Determine the VDP?s distance from the
threshold



HAT




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Offline FARUK ISIK

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Güner Abi, chartta MAP pistin ortasında mesela .. MAP aslında bizim bildiğimiz anlamda karar verme noktası değil mi diye düşünmüyor değilim .. 
VDP'yi şimdlik kenara koyalım, MAPt'in tam olarak tanımını yapabilirsek olayı çözeceğiz gibi ..  
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Offline GUNER ERCAN

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Hangi chartta ?


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Offline FARUK ISIK

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Burada mesela Güner Abi,
MAPt pistten sonra !? 
MAPt aslında bizim bildiğimiz anlamda karar verme noktası değil mi diye düşünmüyor değilim .. 
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Offline GUNER ERCAN

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Faruk, bu charta göre bizim karar irtifamiz kac ?

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Offline FARUK ISIK

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MDA 630 Ft güner Abi, 
Benim sorduğum burada MAPt'nin konumu ve işlevi ?.. 
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Offline GUNER ERCAN

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Peki, 630ft geldigimiz zaman ne yapiyoruz ? pist görüsü mevcutmu degilmi, degilse pas gececegimize karar veriyoruz mutabikmiyiz ? Big smile

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Offline GUNER ERCAN

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Neyse hadi uzatmayayim Big smile
MAP yani M isaretinin pistin sonunda,basinda yada ortasinda olmasi !Pas gecme kararini, karar irtifasina geldigimizde karar veririz ve pas gecme prosedürünü baslatacagimiz nokta ise M[/b] isaretinin bulundugu yerdir. Bu durumda AYT VOR`u hizasinda. Bir baska örnek ise, NDB yaklasmasinda, pas gecegimize karar vermis isek karar irtifasinda seyrimize devam ederiz ve NDB nin altinda bulunan pas gecme prosedürünü baslatacagimiz noktayi bize belirten M[/b] harfine geldigimizde ise prosedür neyse onu uygulamaya baslariz.Yani özetle M noktasinda prosedüre baslanir.  Yanlis yada eksik varsa arkadaslarimiz düzeltsin lütfen.

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Offline FARUK ISIK

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Peki ben MDA'ya alçaldım, hava öyle bir hava ki tam pist üzerinde pitsi gördüm pas geçmeye karar verdim, illa MAP noktasına kadar düz mü uçacağım ? Yada VDP'yi geçtim (Chartta 3 derecelik hattın kestiği nokta) illa MAPt noktasına kadar zorlayacak mıyım ? Çok ince bir konu, hala oturtamadım kafaya .. 
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